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[kc26]

“Good morning, everyone,” he says to a crowd of 15 onlookers waiting outside the Hemet California Division of Motor Vehicles. “I would like to read a little bit of the word of God this morning.”

The video, shot in February of last year, ends with Mackey’s arrest.

“Good morning, everyone,” he says to a crowd of 15 onlookers waiting outside the Hemet California Division of Motor Vehicles. “I would like to read a little bit of the word of God this morning.”

The video, shot in February of last year, ends with Mackey’s arrest.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/ta ... z1qWIDspCr


I don't want to post the whole article, and I'm sure a few will complain because it is a FOX article, but what I'm asking relates to the principle in general. IF there is incomplete information in this article as many of you accuse FOX of, feel free to complete the story, but it doesn't change my comments and question below.

I am a christian, but even so, I don't support people who go to large gatherings to broadcast their beliefs, whether that be christianity, muslim, atheist, white separist, war opposition, or any other cause in a broadcast method where others are forced to either hear it or leave a place they want to be.

BUT ......... and it's a BIG BUT ................. I do not see anything that should be deemed illegal. IT IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!! Whether I like it or not, I believe freedom of speech DEMANDS that we allow this type of thing. In the article attached this person was arrested because they defined it as a captive audience standing in front of a business that had not yet opened. How is that a captive audience? I understand that these people may not WANT to leave and forfeit their spot in line, but it is a choice they are FREE to make.

What do you think?

[glenstar]

Wow, KC, this is a thorny issue. I have never been a believer in any religious group espousing their beliefs in the public square. Yes, I know there is Biblical references to the Paul and others doing so, but i guess it is just my personal make up. I believe that we testify by our life style rather than by words. Years ago, when i was doing myu forst summer job for the State of Idaho during summer vacation from school, I hit my head on an cabinet door, causing a huge bump. I never said a word, I did not ever cuss or use any profanity in those days. my supervisor who was right there noticed the lack of profanity and said " you must be a Christian or something".

These guys of all religions, be they Muslim, Christian Jews, Jews for Jesus, Mormons, Witnesses, etc, in my opinion, are making a mockery of God with their invasive styles.Now, to your legal question. I am a believer in free speech, but not when people have no outlet. I think it would be more a public nuisance issue. Sorry, your question is very good, but very loaded.. It will be interesting to see how the courts ply it out.

[kc26]

Wow, KC, this is a thorny issue. I have never been a believer in any religious group espousing their beliefs in the public square. Yes, I know there is Biblical references to the Paul and others doing so, but i guess it is just my personal make up. I believe that we testify by our life style rather than by words. Years ago, when i was doing myu forst summer job for the State of Idaho during summer vacation from school, I hit my head on an cabinet door, causing a huge bump. I never said a word, I did not ever cuss or use any profanity in those days. my supervisor who was right there noticed the lack of profanity and said " you must be a Christian or something".

These guys of all religions, be they Muslim, Christian Jews, Jews for Jesus, Mormons, Witnesses, etc, in my opinion, are making a mockery of God with their invasive styles.Now, to your legal question. I am a believer in free speech, but not when people have no outlet. I think it would be more a public nuisance issue. Sorry, your question is very good, but very loaded.. It will be interesting to see how the courts ply it out.

The part I have bolded is the part in particular that I want to discuss.

In reality the religion part of this particular article is somewhat of a red herring. It should make very little difference what this person is talking about ............religion, non religion, politics, wars, etc (with obvious exceptions ..... for killing and attempting to incite riot, etc).

I think the big question is (per your post) ............. "but not when people have no outlet". It is here that I think our police/government is taking huge liberties with our freedom.

In the example I posted, people were waiting in line for a business to open. Is that a captive audience? Who is captivating them?

[glenstar]

In a sense they are semi-captive, KC, Lines in any government agency are some of the slowest moving lines in the world. If the ones in line leave to get away from the speaker, then they lose their place in line, perhaps risking tardiness for their jobs, appointments, etc.. What I don;t want to ever see happen is for something like this to develop into physical confrontation, perhaps even ending in death for someone. This is always an ever present part of the world that we live in.

So, what do i think? Wow, OK, this man is probably sincere, but he showed neither good judgement or sensitivity. Did he break a law ? Probably not, but I think if the motive of the police was to prevent an incident, an arrest was in order, Of course, they should have first given him ample opportunity to cease and desist. (I did not watch the video.)

[kc26]

In a sense they are semi-captive, KC, Lines in any government agency are some of the slowest moving lines in the world. If the ones in line leave to get away from the speaker, then they lose their place in line, perhaps risking tardiness for their jobs, appointments, etc.. What I don;t want to ever see happen is for something like this to develop into physical confrontation, perhaps even ending in death for someone. This is always an ever present part of the world that we live in.

But but but ..................... they have two very simple choices completely and entirely up to them. Get out of line and leave (sure there are potentialy consequences to that, but it is definitely THEIR choice), or simply ignore what is being said (I admit my wife says I am very good at this) and stay in line. They are words ............... their only affect upon you is the affect YOU ALLOW them to have upon you.

[glenstar]

True, KC, they are only words, but in that case, and you are correct, we choose how we react to any given word or situation every minute of every day, then , no speech should be offensive. I should be able to stand in a public line and yell the : N" word all that I want to. I should be able to use profanity all that I want to. They are only words, and only have the effect that you let them have on you, I am not trying to be rude here, KC, or silly, just trying to think this issue through to my own satisfaction.

[kc26]

True, KC, they are only words, but in that case, and you are correct, we choose how we react to any given word or situation every minute of every day, then , no speech should be offensive. I should be able to stand in a public line and yell the : N" word all that I want to. I should be able to use profanity all that I want to. They are only words, and only have the effect that you let them have on you, I am not trying to be rude here, KC, or silly, just trying to think this issue through to my own satisfaction.

I actually agree on both counts.

I hate profanity, and it does offend me personally, but I would never support a law that made it illegal. My wife and I are constantly complaining about movies that are in most respects wholesome family movies, yet some director or producer or writer felt the need to throw in profanity that in our opinion added absolutely nothing to the movie. But it is not my feelings or your feelings, or actually anyones feelings that are the concern, rather it is our long standing right to freedom of speech.

[glenstar]

Cheers/ I agree, too, Freedom of speech and religion are too vital to mess with. Good post. KC,

[Grandma Lynn]

Wow! This should be a clear cut case, but it
isn't. I try to figure out how I would feel if I was
standing in line.
It kind of demeans preaching. How do I explain that?
Well, there's a place for everything. If I want to hear
a sermon, I will go to church or some gathering for
that purpose.
Something like "my space" is invaded.
Maybe the best thing I would have done, if the police
hadn't interfered, would be just wait it out, and don't
cause any trouble. He was harmless and maybe some
people would have learned something, if they were
listening!

[Lil Iodine]

I suppose I could argue this case from both sides. I don't want to listen to someone preaching either, it doesn't matter what he is preaching about. Couldn't that cop just walked up to him and asked/told him to stop? He didn't need to be handcuffed! What GL said was good too. If she wanted some preaching, she would go to church. Me too. Wonder what is going to happen...