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[Joan Deutsch]

by Janelle L on 13 Nov 2012, 13:38
This is something that comes up with my arab mare occasionally. She used to be at a fancy barn and the trainer said she had gotten cinchy because one of the employees cinched her up too fast. She never bites but she'll turn her head around and give me the stink eye and once in a while poke me with her nose a little. My best solution is to grab her nose when she turns around and rub it a bunch and say "OH WHO'S A PRECIOUS LITTLE HORSIE?? WHO'S MY LITTLE BABY ANGEL??" She doesn't like it of course, but it's not really confronting her and starting a fight, either. She usually gives up after one or two times and we go on about our business.

I second any advice to make sure there's nothing physically bothering your horse first. But this kind of thing is something I've been thinking about a lot with my mare. Doing things like making her move her feet a lot if she's impatient on the trail or getting after her really aggressively over things like cinchiness just gives her MORE energy to be difficult. I've been working on finding ways to take away the energy rather than feed it to her. Does that make sense? I think it might be an arab problem because all the standard advice about moving the horse's feet etc. seems to work great on quarter horses.

Janelle, Welcome to the forum! That's too bad your horse's habit was created by poor handling. Did you own her before she got cinchy? Funny you mentioned that moving feet winds her up. I slowly came to that realization this summer with Joe. I've relied on one-rein stops in the past to make the wrong thing difficult but finally figured out that revs him up more! How do you handle your mare on the trail when she gets ramped up?

[Joan Deutsch]

by drafthand on 13 Nov 2012, 20:37

This may seem outta place but I remember reading in Randy Stephens book (Horseman hints) about this. Seems that a fella simply took a small plank like a cedar shingle a put some short tacks in the end. The trick is to let the horse bite the stick and they will punish themselves. I have seen this trick work. But like any other tool or method, you have to use some sense. I would only use this after all of the nicer alternatives have failed.

Drafthand, That reminds me of an early Tom Dorrance video where he and a buddy are trying to stop a horse from turning around and biting. He sets a broom with a long handle on the ground with the handle crossing in front of his body so that the end of the handle sticks out under his arm pit. Then they set the horse up so that he'll try to bite Tom. Tom positions himself so that the horse won't see the broom handle but will hit the side of his head on it when he turns to bite. Tom and his buddy then laugh and laugh over how the horse is so surprised that he did this to himself! I'd forgotten about this although I tried it with Joe many years ago with some success. Might have to check my broom supply.

[cattlehorse]

If you are SURE there is no problem with saddle fit and the horse has not always done this, then my #1 guess would be ulcers. This is a red flag for ulcers for me.

[Joan Deutsch]

Cattlehorse, Welcome to the forum! I should have clarified that this is not new behavior. Joe is 17 and has always been grouchy when I slowly tighten the cinch. I've had some luck in the past making him back up. But I hadn't ridden him for several years. Now that I'm riding him again, he's resorting to his old tricks. At least, I'm fairly certain this is just a behavior issue. Does anyone have recommendations for a bodywork person in the Snohomish area?

[Janelle L]

Janelle, Welcome to the forum! That's too bad your horse's habit was created by poor handling. Did you own her before she got cinchy? Funny you mentioned that moving feet winds her up. I slowly came to that realization this summer with Joe. I've relied on one-rein stops in the past to make the wrong thing difficult but finally figured out that revs him up more! How do you handle your mare on the trail when she gets ramped up?

She was at the fancy barn when I bought her. I'm as un-fancy as you can get! She seems pretty happy now that she is on turnout all day and not stuck in a stall.

Yeah, I like a one-rein stop as an emergency brake but I've had pretty much no luck using it as a calm-down tool. I always stop her and back her up to keep her from being in a hurry. It doesn't add to her energy and I don't fight with her or yank on her mouth which would escalate things. I actually clip my reins onto her halter (which I leave on under the bridle) as soon as we get off the road and onto the trail. That way if I have to reinforce the verbal whoa and sit back I'm not annoying her with the bit.

I'm really conscious of the fact that since we mostly ride on the pipeline trail I have to go out and turn her around and come back. So there's a really obvious moment when we were going away and now we're going back. I turn her and before she even starts walking off I back her up. Then we stop and wait for a moment and then I walk her off and lots of praise. I'll walk her back away from home a little ways and try again if she's fussy and then stop and back as many times as I need to while we're pointing towards home. She tends to give in and just mosey along. Most rides I only stop and back once or twice just to check in with her and make sure she's paying attention.

The last thing I do is put her in her corral (with the saddle off) when I get home for 20 minutes or half an hour or so. There's been a few rides where this didn't quite get her calm but I know for sure she was having a major hormone moment at least one of those times.

If we're out exploring somewhere new it's actually hard to get her to turn back towards home. She's really an awesome horse and I'm working to keep her that way! I hope this is helpful...like I said, it seems like a lot of the advice you see is all about moving their feet and making them work but you can't tire out an arab...

[horsepeople2001]

oh yes you can make an Arab tired, you just have to be willing to ride long enough and far enough. I have seen it done. it was an 8 hour ride, both my friends horse and mine where tired I was riding a QH at the time and her Arab a young one at 7 yrs quit before my QH of 14 yrs did. Yes a QH out worked an ARAB.

[kriss10]

I agree that there are some horses you just can't "smack" and get the desired results. I have two who cannot be bullied in any way, shape or form. When I work with them I have to start each session in the mindset that we are on their time, not mine. If i'm not up for it, I don't even start. I don't take the smack 'em option lightly, but Joan has been describing Joes antics long enough that I think he is just a bit unhappy about being brought out of his early retirement. Getting after him a couple of times when he gets nasty will probably solve the problem. The bad thing about saddling issues is that you have to be well into the saddling process before you can make them back or circle, or you may end up with a wreck, or at least a wrecked saddle...

[Joan Deutsch]

I'm really conscious of the fact that since we mostly ride on the pipeline trail I have to go out and turn her around and come back. So there's a really obvious moment when we were going away and now we're going back. I turn her and before she even starts walking off I back her up. Then we stop and wait for a moment and then I walk her off and lots of praise. I'll walk her back away from home a little ways and try again if she's fussy and then stop and back as many times as I need to while we're pointing towards home. She tends to give in and just mosey along. Most rides I only stop and back once or twice just to check in with her and make sure she's paying attention.

The last thing I do is put her in her corral (with the saddle off) when I get home for 20 minutes or half an hour or so. There's been a few rides where this didn't quite get her calm but I know for sure she was having a major hormone moment at least one of those times.

If we're out exploring somewhere new it's actually hard to get her to turn back towards home. She's really an awesome horse and I'm working to keep her that way! I hope this is helpful...like I said, it seems like a lot of the advice you see is all about moving their feet and making them work but you can't tire out an arab...

Janelle, Sounds like you and your horse get along well. I sometimes deal with your situation of having to turn around to go home rather than ride a loop. I try to turn at different spots on different rides so my horse doesn't anticipate. But they still occasionally try to see if they can turn around. If I can't get them totally calm on the trail, we go to work in the ring when we get home.

[Joan Deutsch]

by horsepeople2001 on 15 Nov 2012, 14:54

oh yes you can make an Arab tired, you just have to be willing to ride long enough and far enough. I have seen it done. it was an 8 hour ride, both my friends horse and mine where tired I was riding a QH at the time and her Arab a young one at 7 yrs quit before my QH of 14 yrs did. Yes a QH out worked an ARAB.

I often think about Buck's wittism that goes something like: There's not much wrong with a horse that can't be cured with a 40-mile ride.

Of course, many of us don't have the time or energy to ride that long, so I don't think he was saying that's a practical solution. Just a bit of humor.

[Joan Deutsch]

So, I forgot that I had a little grain in my pocket when I tacked up Joe on Friday. But then I noticed him giving me that sweet "I-want-grain" look rather than the evil cinchy look. I'm going to look for our thread on giving treats.