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[Joan Deutsch]

Now that I'm riding Joe a fair amount, I'd like to deal with his grouchy attitude about the cinch. While he's tied up, I tighten it slowly and gently over a period of about 10 mins or longer. But he pins his ears and reaches around and tries to bite me. Any ideas how we can get through this?

[kriss10]

I hate to say this, but if it was my horse, I would probably smack him. I wouldn't say this to just anyone, because I have seen the way some people go about throwing a saddle on a horse, and some horses have a right to complain. Joan, I know you have done your homework, your horses are well taken care of, your saddle fits. From the sounds of it, he is being a crab. I know several people are going to think I am wrong, but you have tried to be nice, maybe now you just need to be the boss?

[Rngovvet]

Have you had bodywork done on him? Do you do neck and forelimb stretches? He may have sore spots that make him cinchy.

[Joan Deutsch]

Kriss, I know what you mean! Joe wants to be the boss and I think he's just being a jerk. So, I'll try tacking up with him in hand, not tied, and then I'll correct him.

[Joan Deutsch]

Rngovvet, Thanks for the reminder about bodywork. It's been awhile and I meant to keep up with it periodically. Joe has a fairly short back while Cody's is long. So when they had their first appointment, I expected Cody was the one who might be out of alignment. Turned out it was Joe!

[Janelle L]

Hey all, hope you don't mind me popping in the discussion even though I don't know your horses...

This is something that comes up with my arab mare occasionally. She used to be at a fancy barn and the trainer said she had gotten cinchy because one of the employees cinched her up too fast. She never bites but she'll turn her head around and give me the stink eye and once in a while poke me with her nose a little. My best solution is to grab her nose when she turns around and rub it a bunch and say "OH WHO'S A PRECIOUS LITTLE HORSIE?? WHO'S MY LITTLE BABY ANGEL??" She doesn't like it of course, but it's not really confronting her and starting a fight, either. She usually gives up after one or two times and we go on about our business.

I second any advice to make sure there's nothing physically bothering your horse first. But this kind of thing is something I've been thinking about a lot with my mare. Doing things like making her move her feet a lot if she's impatient on the trail or getting after her really aggressively over things like cinchiness just gives her MORE energy to be difficult. I've been working on finding ways to take away the energy rather than feed it to her. Does that make sense? I think it might be an arab problem because all the standard advice about moving the horse's feet etc. seems to work great on quarter horses.

Good luck!

[Rngovvet]

Hi Janelle:

I agree -- I've got couple of mares at my place that you cannot force or 'get after' to get them to do what you want - the fight tends to energize them and cause bigger problems. I use a silly method, sort of like you describe, with one of them, and I basically out-stubborn both of them at times, depending on the situation. My silly for my Kiger is to play her theme song (Little Miss Can't Be Wrong, by the Spin Doctors) and I dance like a fool (if no one's looking). That works if she won't load or go into her stall or otherwise refuses to move. She forgets what the fight was by the time it's done, and we just go on with our day.

There are situations where I make them move, alpha-mare style. They get it because they're mustangs. I had a comment from the farrier last visit: one of my girls did not want to stand still. Once she snatched her foot away from him; I did alpha mare with 'the look" and body-presence pressure. He said that she looked like she thought she was going to die - without a touch or a raised voice. She was a gem for the rest of her trim.

[Janelle L]

That is hilarious! I say that with the utmost respect though...don't take that as criticism of your methods! I am totally in favor of doing whatever works even if you might get some odd looks (or looked down on) by other horse people that don't know your horse.

Thanks for sharing your strategy! I needed a good laugh today.

[Rngovvet]

That is hilarious! I say that with the utmost respect though...don't take that as criticism of your methods! I am totally in favor of doing whatever works even if you might get some odd looks (or looked down on) by other horse people that don't know your horse.

Thanks for sharing your strategy! I needed a good laugh today.

I think it's hilarious, too. It keeps me from taking myself too seriously and losing patience. That is totally counterproductive!

[drafthand]

This may seem outta place but I remember reading in Randy Stephens book (Horseman hints) about this. Seems that a fella simply took a small plank like a cedar shingle a put some short tacks in the end. The trick is to let the horse bite the stick and they will punish themselves. I have seen this trick work. But like any other tool or method, you have to use some sense. I would only use this after all of the nicer alternatives have failed.