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[Grandma Lynn]

I think Mel makes a good point!

But now I'm thinking maybe all
that will be gone....who knows?

[-Alex]

Some people pray at their doctors office.

And some people pray at school. There's no issue with that. There is issue with people in charge of others choosing to lead them in prayer of the leader's religious preference. Individuals themselves are free to pray, and there is no federal restriction on a student praying.

That's entirely different from teaching a religion (as opposed to teaching about many religious beliefs), and leading people in that religious practice.

[mel bradford]

Yes, all very antiseptic and politically correct. God forbid (pun intended) that anything approaching mans trancendent relationship to the Creator would or could be acknowledged in a public school. I mean the horror of something so foundational to self government and personal responsibility ever crossing the lips of an educator.

Educate, from the latin educere...to draw out. and from ducere....to lead.

[beenthereanddonethat]

Yes, all very antiseptic and politically correct. God forbid (pun intended) that anything approaching mans trancendent relationship to the Creator would or could be acknowledged in a public school. I mean the horror of something so foundational to self government and personal responsibility ever crossing the lips of an educator.

Educate, from the latin educere...to draw out. and from ducere....to lead.

Melvin? Man's trancendent relationship to the Creator isn't exclusivly Christian. This is what you constantly fail to understand in this discussion! Which is why no one religion can claim our schools or anywhere else in this nation. THANK GOD!!!

[mel bradford]

....there goes the baby with the bath water.

[beenthereanddonethat]

....there goes the baby with the bath water.

Actually, there goes your arguement. Wrong as usual. LOL!

[-Alex]

God forbid (pun intended) that anything approaching mans trancendent relationship to the Creator would or could be acknowledged in a public school.

Actually, that's fine - like I said, teaching about many religious beliefs is fine.

I mean the horror of something so foundational to self government and personal responsibility ever crossing the lips of an educator.

You may belief prayer and/or faith is foundational to those things, but there is no evidence to support that - in fact evidence to the contrary, since people without faith and prayer still self govern and have personal responsibility!

[mel bradford]

....You may belief prayer and/or faith is foundational to those things, but there is no evidence to support that....

No evidence ?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[-Alex]

No evidence ? Hebrews 11:1

I rest my case. No evidence. When you need to use circular logic to prove your point, i.e. using your faith to assert that faith is foundational to those things (even using a faith quote that doesn't even mention self government and personal responsibility), there's no evidence to support that.

[mel bradford]

You're right Alex. There is no proof that prayer or faith or belief in God have anything to do with self government or personal responsibility. To assert such enters a realm that you are not familiar with, do not trust, and are morally at odds with. Enjoy your secularism for all its worth...and keep working to create equality....